How to cheat on Lichess [sarcasm off]

Sorry for the triggering title (I was not serious in the title I will now on), despite the title (that is provoking on purpose) I don't want to talk on how to cheat nor I encourage anyone to do so here (and I will dissociate from anyone who come here with the intention to cheat).
To be clear I encourage people to fair play and personality condemn/dissociate from cheating or any other unfair behaviour.

What i would achieve with that provoking post is to highlight that accordingly to ToS and forum FAQ and report types; is not forbidden to plan how to cheat here on Lichess (at least to my best understanding).

In fact is forbidden to cheat or accuse someone to do so, but seems to be allowed to explain how to chat/avoid detection or even encourage others to cheat.
IMHO (if my understanding is correct) this a big hole in ToS and should be fixed ASAP, adding also the ability to report players that discussed about that in chat or forum (I didn't find that among possible issues that can be reported).

I know that there will be certainly way around to circumvent any restriction of such kind (eg: do all the planning on other platforms) but at least the ToS will be more logical and let no gray area.

I agree with you

We explain people all the time that they lose games by "Cheat Detected" if they use the Lichess analysis board. From there they can already draw the conclusion that they need another SF device.

Also, in correspondence, mild cheating is going on all the time anyway since the inhibition level is very low and there's no way to monitor it. There are plenty of reasons to why I'm not seeking correspondence games with randoms for a long time.

@Cedur216 said in #3:
> We explain people all the time that they lose games by "Cheat Detected" if they use the Lichess analysis board. From there they can already draw the conclusion that they need another SF device.
>
> Also, in correspondence, mild cheating is going on all the time anyway since the inhibition level is very low and there's no way to monitor it. There are plenty of reasons to why I'm not seeking correspondence games with randoms for a long time.

Really how that related with the issues I have highlighted?
Even if I may be inspired by our previous discussion, the fact is that I found out (or at least to the best of my knowledge) that ToS is somewhat illogical.

Basically is allowed (ab assurdum) to build up a topic in which discuss on how to evade cheating detection.
This is an issue in my option, regardless of whatever discussion us may have had.

just the fact that something is not covered by the ToS, doesn't mean that mods will tolerate it. The ToS don't claim to be exhaustive.

@Cedur216 said in #5:
> just the fact that something is not covered by the ToS, doesn't mean that mods will tolerate it. The ToS don't claim to be exhaustive.

AFAIK everything not forbidden is allowed.
That not ToS that's law in France, this site's country so is by far more relevant than ToS or your opinion IMHO.
Consider then that, as I know, censoring or somehow change visibility of something for "no reason" (anything not unlawful, nor covered by ToS nor by moderation/report guidelines/cases) may fall under definition of dark patterns. A practice that AFAIK is forbidden by DSA.

That said I think I just point out a gray area of ToS, and everyone here, also you, come to the conclusion that what I point out as not forbidden may not be tolerated.
So why not just simply add few line of text to ToS and clear out that exchange instructions on how to cheat is forbidden?

Ps: I am not a lawyer but ToS is a contract in my knowledge. As I know have to be considered complete.
Or every time you accept such kind of contact, you will also end up accepting some implicit/incomplete exceptions/limitation, and that would make very difficult to have a clear idea of duties among parties.
For that reason every time a ToS change parties need to be notified (and usually you can recede the contract without penalties, cause of the change).

Do you discuss with visitors of yours how to behave in your house? When and why they are supposed to leave?

The ToS is a strong recommendation, don’t try to overextend.

TOS:

> You must not misuse the site by introducing harmful materials, programmes, or code designed to negatively affect the operation of any computer software or hardware.

> We reserve the right to remove content that violates these Terms, with particular reference to our Fair Play and Community Guidelines section. This also includes content which may constitute copyright infringement, trademark violations or other intellectual property misappropriation, or other unlawful conduct.

> Both registered and anonymous users of our website and services agree to behave with good conduct. You agree that if, at our sole discretion, we determine your account is not behaving with good conduct, you may have your access or use of our website and/or services partially or fully suspended or terminated. You further agree that if, at our sole discretion, we determine your content to have breached these Terms you may have your content partially or fully removed, hidden, deleted or otherwise made inaccessible, either to yourself and/or others.

It may not cover all, but it should be clear that it is lichess who defines what is appropriate and what not, and can act accordingly.

@nadjarostowa said in #8:
> TOS:
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> It may not cover all, but it should be clear that it is lichess who defines what is appropriate and what not, and can act accordingly.

To be fair, first and second point didn't clearly say that someone can not incite to cheat or share knowledge on how to do so without being detected.
Both cases are more "conspiration" than one of the forbidden action.
As you said it's not cover all, but AFAIK it should.

The third I think is a good point, it's something that I oversight reading ToS.
Question is, is it still allowed and enforceable after DSA come to force in February?
If the answer is yes then ToS may be a bit more clear but it's not a big deal as I thought.

But if AFAIK the answer is not anymore, then it's an issue.
Remember few years ago (if my memory doesn't fail me) cheater was shadow banned, and up today we call the process shadow banning (even if in reality is not it anymore) .
Now no real shadow banning is applied, I don't think because of a free choice of Lichess Team, I think shadow banning become forbidden by law.
For my understanding banning someone for "no reason" (aka nothing illegal, clearly forbidden in ToS or guidelines) is not legal anymore.

I repeat I am not a lawyer and may be I have misunderstood something, but in the doubt I prefer to point out the possible issue.

Here the piece of law that make me think

>Article 14, Terms and conditions - the Digital Services Act (DSA)
>1. Providers of intermediary services shall include information on any restrictions that they impose in relation to the use of their service in respect of information provided by the recipients of the service, in their terms and conditions. That information shall include information on any policies, procedures, measures and tools used for the purpose of content moderation, including algorithmic decision-making and human review, as well as the rules of procedure of their internal complaint handling system. It shall be set out in clear, plain, intelligible, user-friendly and unambiguous language, and shall be publicly available in an easily accessible and machine-readable format.

>4. Providers of intermediary services shall act in a diligent, objective and proportionate manner in applying and enforcing the restrictions referred to in paragraph 1, with due regard to the rights and legitimate interests of all parties involved, including the fundamental rights of the recipients of the service, such as the freedom of expression, freedom and pluralism of the media, and other fundamental rights and freedoms as enshrined in the Charter.

IMHO if my understanding is correct, it's better for the platform to be super clear, and state unambiguously that is not allowed to plan or conspire to cheat in PM or forum

@Sarg0n said in #7:
> Do you discuss with visitors of yours how to behave in your house? When and why they are supposed to leave?
>
> The ToS is a strong recommendation, don’t try to overextend.

I agree with you when you said that a site owner or private company should act as they please on theirs infrastructure, as an home owner with guests.

But unfortunately I quoted (my previous message) the piece of law that conceded me. If I have interpreted it correctly that mean that contrary to common sense they can not. And mean also that ToS is by law a contract, not recommendation, so not abiding is a contract breach, definitely not a joke.

Again, I am not a lawyer, so maybe my concern is just a mistake I made.